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Carte gris

Posted by pilot-425170 - Created: 3 years ago
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10 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 10)

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Posted by brian2bin - 3 years ago

I would avoid getting sucked into this situation it will only bring you grief but if you enjoy that well go on go on go on.The first thing they will think is the car could be stolen ! worrying. Any money you think this buy will save will soon seem like a pittance compared to the true cost of getting this car legal.

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Posted by XLR - 3 years ago

Hi. It is not legal to sell a car if you do not have the Carte Grise in your name (unless selling it to a scrapyard for destruction perhaps, but I have no experience of that).

As others have said, a seller doing so is trying to avoid paying the tax payable when requesting a new Carte Grise. Essentially it's tax avoidance on the one hand, and identity fraud on another (selling a car under the name of the previous owner).

The authorities are quite hot on it now and the penalties are very stiff. I sold a BMW to a young French guy a few years ago. Later on it emerged he had tried to sell it on to someone else, using the old barred Carte Grise and forging my signature on the 'Déclaration de cession d'un véhicule'. I was summoned to the Gendarmerie and asked to give a written statement confirming it was not my signature on the document. Fast forward 20 months (the French legal system ain't quick!) and the young guy had to face a tribunal for various violations of the law, pay a large fine and received a suspended jail sentence.

*IF* you buy a car like this, you may be able to register it eventually, but it will be a major headache, lots of paperwork, and you may have to pay the Carte Grise tax twice (or more, depending on how many times it's been sold on without being re-registered). Best avoided really.

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Posted by Reveuse-918439 - 3 years ago

A carte grise in the name of the person who has bought/is buying it (that most people apart from Fitter would call the "owner"), plus a certificat de non gage that will flag up if he hasn't finished paying for it, is a fairly foolproof system. And to get back to the OP, it stops you buying a car from a person who isn't legally entitled to sell it.

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Posted by sophie hunton - 3 years ago

Used to be the case when you bought on hire purchase then they dropped that system and used some system like a personal loan ,the item became yours and wasn't repossessed if you didn't pay but then they went back to system where the car was used as collateral for the loan to buy it and it belonged to the finance company until you made the last payment,my ex car dealer mate used to regularly buy cars at auction that turned out to be on finance or even stolen  and the auction house had to give him the money back,friend of mine bought a Porsche in the UK ,hpi'd it brought it over and the prefecture said something not right,he contacted porsche who told him the car was 18 months older than on reg doc and base model not sport,value dropped two grand the and then,wasn't chuffed,so shows you nothing is one hundred percent but French system picked up the problem and UK system did not.

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Posted by Reveuse-918439 - 3 years ago

No, I think you're splitting hairs here. All that link says, is that if you've bought the car on finance then it only fully belongs to you, as in, it is yours to sell, when you've made the final payment. Whereas in the UK, the person named on the log book is the KEEPER. So for company cars, in France the cg would be in the company name, in the UK the V5 is in the keeper's name. Your post implied that the two systems are similar which they're not.

If you buy a TV or a car or whatever on finance, do you really not consider it to be yours until it's paid for in full? No, you say 'I've got a new TV' - you don't say 'I have a new TV in my living room but it's not mine.' 

 

 

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Posted by Fitter - 3 years ago

People like you just do not listen - I repeat for your benefit::-

The possession of a carte grise in any person's name is not proof that they own the vehicle-ie have legal title to it.

http://www.carte-grise.org/la_carte_grise_n_est_pas_un_titre_de_propriete.htm

Now do you admit that this is correct?

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Posted by Reveuse-918439 - 3 years ago

The UK's V5 isn't proof of ownership. The carte grise is. To the extent that if you owe money to the tax office or other govt body, they can register a charge against your car. Which is why it's important to get a certificat non gage if you're buying a car from somebody, to ensure that there are no charges lodged against it.  You wouldn't want the tax office coming and repossessing the car you'd bought because the previous owner hadn't paid their tax - which you will find has occasionally happened to people, if you google.

It's also been known for the tax office to start a tax investigation when somebody who declares a low income has been flagged up as becoming the owner of a luxury car. Car registration data, income declaration data etc are all linked within the system.

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Posted by Son Of Fred - 3 years ago

As in the UK the V5 is not proof of owner ship

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Posted by Fitter - 3 years ago

I remember reading somewhere in the morass of information about immatriculation on the government websites that a carte grise is not a legal title of ownership of a vehicle.

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Posted by sophie hunton - 3 years ago

Unless they are a registered car dealership I meant to add