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access disputes

Posted by walnut72 - Created: 3 years ago
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10 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 10)

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Posted by Jeremy-122573 - 3 years ago

if the plot hasn't changed hands yet, find out the Notaire handling the transfer and go and see the Notaire and insist the the transfer document includes your right of access, and object to the teansfer proceeding without this. Hopefully it will be the same Notaire that handled the first transfer

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Posted by La Magdelaine - 3 years ago

Assurance juridique for me was a waste of time & money so be warned if your dispute is with another expat & then the "expert" wants you to shake hands & make the case like "knock for knock" as I found out to my grief when I was <robbed> of 400 Euros by a nice rubber cheque from an expat last year,  so I lost the money & the items sold = given away.

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Posted by Kanak - 3 years ago

Hi bretonlion,  I think most french laws have a base in the code civil, and certainly local practices lead us to believe strange things go on.  I know of the 'prescription trentenaire' where a servitude whose use is 'continue et apparente' gets to be accepted, or on the contrary even after 30 years of no use must be retained in the case of enclavement. (Art 682)   Is this walnut's position?. We were not told if his access was necessary to get to his property, or if it is a second way out for convenience or pleasure.  Great that he has protection juridique, and will give us feedback.

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Posted by bretonlion - 3 years ago

Hi,

Ages ago I was talking to a French friend about crossing peoples land etc .. and he said, if some one had been using a track or similar for over 5 years, without the owner saying anything, it was was regarded as a right of way..  I do not kwow if it was true what he was saying .. and I am sure there will be some one reading this, that will know ..

The same goes he said for rainwater .. if it had been draing into /onto a next doors land for ages, without the owner of said land saying anything .. it was Ok by law ..

There are some strange "laws" in France ..

Rgds

Chris

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Posted by walnut72 - 3 years ago

Just an update, I have referred it to our assurance juridique, Generali, it is all a bit complicated for me! but will let you know the outcome.

It does say in the paperwork with the plan and re bornage, it cannot be overturned in the case of sale or inheritance unless it goes before a judge

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Posted by leapfrog - 3 years ago

I'm just relieved I don't have a problem with my eyesight, literacy or understanding of what a bornage entails.

Thanks for the support Kanak ;)

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Posted by hobo22-442739 - 3 years ago

Walnut,

Has the sale of the extra bit of garden & garage been completed (between the original and new owners) or is it still going through?

Are you able to contact the seller to inform her what the new owners said to you regarding the access?

Do you know who the Notaire is who handled the original sale of the cottage and is presumbly also dealing with the 2nd sale?

To protect your interests it is imperative to ensure that the Notaire who is handling the sale is given a copy of the Process Verbal  ASAP and to then include this as a Servitude de Passage written into the Title Deed (Acte de Proprieté). If you are not already aware who the Notaire is you will have to try and find out from the lady owner. 

If the sale of the 2nd part has in fact been completed, I will need to give you more information.

If  the lady did things as they should have been done, when the re-bornage was effected, she should have sent a copy of the Proces Verbal to her Notaire so that when the sale of the remaining part of her property took place, the Notaire had all the information to include your Right of Way. Now it's for you to do some detective work ASAP to see if that was done.

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Posted by Kanak - 3 years ago

Hi walnut,  I think it is clear that you have in your possession the plan from the géomètre, which we all agree is legally binding.  So whatever he may wish to do, the new owner cannot unilaterally get rid of the servitude.  It will be marked on the plan of any current transaction, and is inalienable. Take confidence from the fact that you have that in writing (would pass in future to buyers or inheritors).  If he hadn't have accepted the situation, the buyer should have reacted at the time by lowering the price, but if he now finds it inconvenient to have a droit de passage through his land, in law he can do nothing about it, so stray strong and keep cool, and carry on execising your right of way.

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Posted by janes-394036 - 3 years ago

If the servitude was drawn up correctly, then the new owner will have to respect it. It sounds as though it was but you need to see a notaire and take all the paperwork with you to find out if it was.

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Posted by walnut72 - 3 years ago

sorry I think I explained it badly.

due to a dispute between the buyer and the seller the notaire called for a geometre who came to sort out the dispute.

The geometre made an agreement between us and the seller who had retained the piece of land with our access across it.

we received a new plan from the geometre and it also had a document of several pages saying the plan showed the droit de servitude which would pass in future to buyer or inheriteurs.

now the seller has sold the little piece of garden to the original buyer of his house.

It is the new owner who wants to get rid of the servitude.

It is an official geometre and it mentions the plan cadastre