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Self employed, living in England and temporary work in France

Posted by getmeoutofhere-888191 - Created: 4 years ago
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6 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 6)

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Posted by getmeoutofhere-888191 - 4 years ago

Thank you Foxie. I think I know where to start my investigations now.

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Posted by Foxie-986308 - 4 years ago

There are several different aspects to this - social security, business structure and taxes, and personal income tax - and each depends on your personal circumstances, the structure of your UK business and your sphere of activity, which since you understandably don't want to disclose all the details on a public forum, no one can give you informed advice.

It makes a difference whether you are self employed as you said in the title of the thread, ie you and the business are one and the same, or if you have a UK ltd co that pays you a salary, ie you the businiess is a separate entity, and you are a business owner and also an employee of your UK company. Either way, for soc sec you need to make sure you get a workers S1 from the UK if you're not paying cotisations in France. EU law makes it obligatory to for you pay into the social security system of the state where you're working even if only temporarily UNLESS you hold a workers S1 from another EU state. Without an S1, URSSAF could have you for working on the black.

My feeling is that the fact you own business premises in France would make it compulsory to register some kind of business entity. However it might be possible to register the premises as a separate business, and rent the premises to your UK business.

Tax would be payable in France either way, you would submit a non residents declaration of income annually.

The important thing is to make sure your back is covered and whatever you decide to do, clear it with both HMRC and the fisc first, because if it turns out five years down the line that you can't do what you have been doing, there will be back taxes and fines to pay and no avoiding them because you can't go back and change the way you have operated in the past.

Depending on the activity there may also be specific French rules and regs that you have to comply with, eg a brocante/second hand dealer has to register and has to keep records of all the items that pass through the business, which the police can ask to see at any time, again there are fines for not being able to produce these records.



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Posted by getmeoutofhere-888191 - 4 years ago

My activity would be very brief in France - just a couple of months.

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Posted by getmeoutofhere-888191 - 4 years ago

Hmmm... Thank you for your replies.

The example was fictional because I don't want to be more explicit, but the two businesses would have physical 'shop fronts', with accomodation fit for purpose (that part is already sorted). I am really trying to work out how this could work fiscally. I actually know someone who has a UK ltd company and a physical activity in France - several people in fact. My question is, can this be done without a ltd company.

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Posted by Fashion1 - 4 years ago

Your example is misleading. An ice-cream parlour is a physical place and they would never allow you to open one in your residence, unless it was zoned for that - ie. - living upstairs from it in a village with the downstairs being a "BUS" & upstairs being "residencial accomodation".

And MNS is also giving you bad info. Do you think Ford UK could open up a dealership here without registering as a business here? Even Amazon, Ebay or Apple even though they are registered in Luxembourg or Ireland have had to register as a business to do what they do here.

Now, if you are just doing admin work, ie. paperwork and have no physical place of business here in France and come and go (under 183 days a year) then yes, you bill the client thru your UK Ltd, but with the exchange rate, you might be too expensive.

For any physical activity, you will have to register here, hope your qualifications pass muster(ie. ice cream parlour) & pay tax here. Tax schemes are different for "seasonal work" and "seasonal workers" in which you would be.

Would suggest hiring a good tax accountant with knowledge of both systems.

Have a search for "travail comme travailleur saisonnier en France" using your fav search engine. This is for a business that is already established here in France.

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Posted by mns-438759 - 4 years ago

Yes, it is possible to do this, if you already have a UK registered business and it is mainly run in the UK.  Have a look on the internet for english/french accountants in the uk, there is one in York who can advise you on the tax etc