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Taxe Sociaux

Posted by woody-383477 - Created: 3 years ago
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10 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 10)

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Posted by tigre-979768 - 3 years ago

Woody, income that is taxable in the UK can't have social charges applied hence UK rental income  and Government UK pensions are excempt, so I see no reason that why the sale of a UK property where the profit is taxed as from April last year now in the UK should be different. I know it's hard getting this over to your local tax office but if I were you I would contact say the Connexion newspaper for advise, they may even have an up to date fact sheet on CGT that you can buy, they may be able to tell you what to write on the notes section on your french tax return that may help. I think because income such as UK rental income still generates a tax credit in france a lot of tax offices take it that it is taxable in france and then this generates social charges to be applied which is wrong. Most tax offices (reading forums on this subject)  seem to have now got this right.

Have you declared the proceeds of your UK house sale to the UK government? If not phone them up and explain you didn't realise the change in where the income is taxed. If your house sold in December 2015 and you take the value from April 2015 then the profit you made on paper will be low if any with the deductions you ar allowed. At the end of the day the french tax man can only  work out a credit on the profit you declare and if they do apply S/C's to this they should be minimal, then start the fight for a reimbursemnt.

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Posted by woody-383477 - 3 years ago

Sorry if my original posting was rather confused - perhaps that's why I need help!?  What I understand though is that I have paid S/C over the past couple of years which I may be able to claim back.   Having sold a property in the UK in December 2015, there's every chance we may be asked to pay S/C on the capital gains, which we would prefer to avoid if we are legally entitled to do so.  What is of concern is that our local tax office don't only not appear to understand it, they don't seem to have heard about the court case last year.

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Posted by janes-394036 - 3 years ago

Hi Tigre

I don't think it's as simple as that ....

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/capital-gains-tax/

11.1.6. Property Outside of France

If you become permanently resident in France, and then subsequently sell your former home or other property, you could become liable for French capital gains tax on the sale proceeds. 

Whether you are liable will once again depend on the terms of any double taxation treaty between France and your home country.

In the case of former residents of the UK resident in France a tax treaty signed between France and UK, operative from 1st January 2010, makes you liable for capital gains in France on the future sale of your former home.

........

In addition, since 2015, the UK has also imposed capital gains tax on the sale of property of former residents. We shall be updating this page with further information in due course.

 

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Posted by tigre-979768 - 3 years ago

According to the double tax treaty tax can't be applied to UK property rental because it's classed as immovable assets, this now includes S/C's so I see no reason why the french can apply this to so called tax to the sale of a UK property.

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Posted by tigre-979768 - 3 years ago

Woody, I feel you should have made yourself clearer in your original post, there has been a lot of issues over s/c's being wrongly applied on certain income. Anyway the answer from me to you original question is, sorry but no.

Janes,  I think it will be the same as the problem that has been with the UK rental income and Government pension situation where the french taxman has tried to impose s/c's on income that is taxed in the UK now.This income can't be taxed twice, but of course the amount you would have been charged  in france will be applied in the way of a credit, nothing to pay but could push you up in to a higher tax bracket, and one could end up paying some tax. There are no s/c's on UK rental income and Government pension income so I see no reason why this should be different on a UK property sale, but try telling that to the french! If you look at what the UK taxman is offering when calculating cgt on a sale most UK expats selling UK property at the moment there would be little or no cgt to pay, this I'm sure will  wind the french taxman up. If you look at the UK rules on this tax and you have a property in the UK and sell say in 10yrs time then you would certainly pay cgt on it in the UK. I looked in to this as we were thinking of buying in France and renting our UK home out, so spoke to the Inland Revenue about this.

 

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Posted by woody-383477 - 3 years ago

Thanks for all the replies to my posting and there is, obviously, a lot of misunderstanding around the issue (surprise, surprise?) but to go back to the beginning does anyone know an accountant who may be able to help us?

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Posted by janes-394036 - 3 years ago

Ah Yes. That was what I thought. I don't think you're right. I think there will be CGT to pay in France because French rates are higher than in the UK. The French goverment calculates what you would have paid in France, deducts what you've actually paid in the UK and then charges you the rest. Plus as Tregadilet says, they appear to have found a way round the Social Charges ruling. So we will have to pay around 35% CGT. Please let me know if you think differently and why.

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Posted by tigre-979768 - 3 years ago

Hi Janes,

I don't have a link but if you go on to the UK gov site regarding this tax there you should find the information, or telephone the Inland Revenue for overseas enquiries.Apparently you still have to declare the sale to the french taxman along with your tax declaration and they then give you a tax credit against any gain. 

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Posted by janes-394036 - 3 years ago

Hi Tigre. Can you let me have a link to somewhere that says there is no French CGT after April 2015 on any UK property sold.I can't find anything that says that and I would be very interested to know if it's correct. Thanks

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Posted by Tregadilet - 3 years ago

The French goverment changed the rules on  the Social tax at the start of this year, as the income goes to another fund (Fonds de solidarité vieillesse et à la Caisse nationale de solidarité pour l'autonomie) to get around the EU ruling,  So it seems people will still have to pay the tax. 

see: http://www.french-property.com/news/tax_france/social_charges_constitutional_council_ruling/