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English Components / French Components

Posted by kindog - Created: 3 years ago
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10 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 10)

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Posted by garethe - 3 years ago

as a follow up and a bit more googling

EN 1856-1:2009 seems to be the appropriate standard. Standards that are EN..... are normalised across europe so there should not be any other local country standard. Easiest way to check is see if the earlier post which referenced french made double skinned flues mentions it. if so i would assume you are good to go..

 

 

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Posted by garethe - 3 years ago

This is an interesting discussion. The UK standards for chimney flues and installation are here:

http://www.hetas.co.uk/wp-content/mediauploads/BFCMA-General-Guidance-10-12-12.pdf

what you'd need to do is to find the French equivalent which i am sure there is one and see if the standards that your UK components meet are acceptable / the same as in France. All products sold in europe must carry the CE mark which shows it meets euro standards (EN) for them to be sold in any euro country. However that does not mean that they necessarily do or do not comply with the local norms or regulations, which for France generally means a NF stamp.  e.g. french, german, Uk plugs are all CE compliant - however they are all different and will be stamped accordingly... so you may find an installer who refuses to install flue components bought from the Uk (with a CE and  BS stamps), not because its bad, but because he has no gaurantee that it meets all the requirments for france, which presumably would have an NF stamp..

it's a great example imho of euro standards to enable free movement of goods and services and then protectionism to stop it ;-)

 

 

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Posted by kindog - 3 years ago

I had my own property maintenance business in the UK and I am aware of how some builders operate in the UK, I am not painting the French Artisans with the same brush (but have been told that they think all Brits are loaded). I have so far had a French artisan who was willing to carry out all of the work from lowering the flue liner and fixing the top plate and cowl. But the installation of the wood burner would be down to me to, not what I wanted. Another would also do the same. A third would supply and fit what he thought best, the fourth said about only using French components.

So I decided to get a Devis from the French outlet we purchased the wood burner from and are now waiting for their survey to be carried out and then hopefully have the burner installed and commissioned before the winter sets in with all the necessary certificates .

Thank you all for your input.

Would still like to know if you must only use French components.

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Posted by noblesse-404553 - 3 years ago

Kindog,

I don't think your artisan will propose using a single-skin chimney liner or fixed flue pipe, the usual thing is to use double-skin everything.

Googling 'conduit avec isolation intégré type poujolat '(Poujolat is the leading manufacturer of chimney systems) came up with this

http://www.poujoulat.fr/produit/19/17/1/conduits-isoles.html

which shows a number of insulated chimney systems

and according to this website

http://ramonage.comprendrechoisir.com/comprendre/conduit-isole

Il est à noter que les boisseaux à double paroi ne constituent pas une isolation suffisante. Cependant, les conduits métalliques à double paroi le sont suffisamment. 

In any case, just knowing someone who had a fire, had UK chimney parts installed, and whose insurance paid out (and hopefully such people are few and far between!), will not help you with this particular artisan.

I understand completely the desire not to be taken for a fool and pay over the top, but after 7 years of renovation I have discovered that this is not always something you can avoid, at least where artisans are involved!

The best you can do is to find an artisan - ideally several artisans - recommended by someone you know and accept the devis you are happiest with. This is never necessarily the least expensive, as you probably know. 

Most importantly, obtain the insurance details of any artisan you are considering BEFORE you accept their devis, and CONTACT that insurer to make sure the insurance is valid. If they will not provide the information, DO NOT accept the devis. Even if they do provide what they say is their insurer, it may not be valid, you must talk to the insurer.  I learned this at my cost a few years ago when I had my wood-fired boiler installed.

janet

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Posted by kindog - 3 years ago

Thank you for your input.

 

I am not determined to use UK purchased components, when discussing with the people in France, on the installation of flue liners, the subject of its legality was not raised and if they have done something that does not meet with the current regulations I don’t want to be the person to rain on their parade.

Indeed the French components are just as good as the ( I should have said Purchased in the UK, not made in the UK, Sorry for the getting that wrong) UK purchased components that meet with the EU regulations, as the French components have the same standards and also meet the EU regulations. As both meet EU regulations, I am querying why is it that only French components be used ?

As of yet I have not been able to source French double skinned vermiculite insulated fixed flue pipe, as this pipe will be exposed, if you use a single skinned pipe it will become hot and be a danger. The builder who is English but French registered, has told me that this type of pipe is unavailable in France (his words not mine).

I do not have a problem with using French Artisans, I am trying to find out if, as so often you read that others, have been taken for a fool and paid over the top. This is the reason why I posted this question.

I would like to have installed a Stainless Steel twin lined 904/904 flexible liner which comes with a 30yr guarantee.

You are right that the chimney needs to be swept prior to the flue liner installation and that you have to retain the certificate as proof, and also that the flue needs to be swept twice annually retaining the certificate as proof.

May be what I should have asked is.....Has anybody used UK purchased components and then had a fire and their insurance company refused to pay out.

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Posted by LucyBee - 3 years ago

Hello there... very good idea to install a wood burning stove... but I don't quite understand why you would want to use uk parts for a french stove - and am pretty sure that your insurance would NOT cover. Every installation needs to be certifiied, the flues need to be professionally cleaned every year, with a certificate also. But good luck with your installation anyway!

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Posted by noblesse-404553 - 3 years ago

Kindog,

The issue is not simply whether the insurance would be invalid for an installation using British-made components (if indeed, the components WERE made in Britain - or England) but whether you will be able to find a French-registered, qualified, and insured wood-burner installer who will use those components and provide insurance for the installation.

As has been discussed many times, French-registered artisans pay a lot of money for their insurances and do not want to compromise the installation by using parts they have not purchased.  The artisan in question would not have known the details of your insurance policy, but he most likely DOES know the details of HIS, and non-French components may not be covered.

French flue pipes, etc., are just as good as the ones from the UK, and in any case are made to EU-wide standards, so quality shouldn't be an issue. The price this artisan charges you for them will most likely be higher than if you bought the bits in the UK and transported them to France, but then you wouldn't have to buy them in the UK and transport them, they would just be brought to your house by the artisan and installed, thus saving a lot of time and effort and thus be worthy of the extra cost!

Anyway, if you are determined to US English/British components, you will have to find another installer. Perhaps you could ask the other people you know in France who have done this who installed their wood burner?

janet

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Posted by countrydweller - 3 years ago

Who will probably say" Yes no problem" but when the house burns down there will be a gallic shrug and "but you used parts that did not comply to les normes".Are you DIYing or is your builder putting it in?If the former then you need to check with your insurance company if they will still cover you and if the latter I doubt that any properly registered and insured builder will use parts that do not conform to French specs;any "promises" that you get from an insurance coy should be in writing and not verbally

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Posted by Burt Lancaster - 3 years ago

As above, insurance is as at home difficult to claim whan needed, they will as with cars give you the insurance but once an issue arises use every possible reason to not pay. You need a registered artisan and approved products to comply.

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Posted by Brian Stone - 3 years ago

I suggest the best person to answer your question would be your insurer. All else is guesswork.