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Paris

Posted by Rita T-387361 - Created: 3 years ago
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10 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 10)

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Posted by Mickrest - 3 years ago

The essential thing is to make joining ISIL less sexy for potential young recruits. Stepping up the war against ISIL is unlikely to achieve the aim, quite the reverse. The solution needs to be more imaginative.

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Posted by orme2 - 3 years ago

I agree up to a point - all the while pointing out that Daesh is not a sovereign nation and is blowing people up here and in Irak, Syria etc.

 

 

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Posted by Mickrest - 3 years ago

Anything would be better than renewed interference in the affairs of other sovereign nations.

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by orme2 - 3 years ago

That maybe what they say, but I'm dubious as to whether any of these young Europeans citizens going off to join the jihad could hold a serious debate about Western countries and their corrupt foreign policy.  Most of them have in fact benefited from the Western countries they grew up in (which is why their parents emigrated from their original homes), and therefore benefited from whatever profits Western countries have been making overseas.

Perhaps we could encourage them to go into politics and try to change things for the better from within the system.

 

 

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Posted by Mickrest - 3 years ago

Yes, but the cause they are fighting for is the defeat of the infidel enemy (i.e. western countries and their corrupt foreign policy).

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Posted by orme2 - 3 years ago

I don't think Luc Ferry was suggesting more religion as the answer (he himself says he is an atheist) - what he was saying is that there is nothing in its place; no more ideals, no higher purpose which some of these young people seem to miss (not the majority, but then it's not the majority joining Daesh luckily).  Abaoud's father is a shop-owner and had bought another shop for his son to run.  That wasn't enough.

As you say, most people are content with an interesting job, family and leisure pursuits.  Doing good works as a higher pursuit?  Yes, if that could be made more glorious, it could be an answer, but what image does it have among the young?  Maybe the upcoming Climate Conference will give some of these people a cause worth fighting for which won't hurt others, on the contrary.

Luc Ferry wasn't going into the mindset, religion or political grievances of the leaders of Daesh/Al Qaida/Boko Haram - he was tackling the problem of the young people brought up in our countries going off and fighting or sacrificing themselves for those causes.  Young people who are often well-educated and from ordinary families.

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Posted by Mickrest - 3 years ago

People don't need religion to have a sense to life. There are many other things that give a sense to life (e.g. a family, a career, political ideals, personal success in sport, helping other). In any case, not having a sense to life no excuse for murder.

Islamic fundamentalists see Western countriess as "crusaders"who are trying to take over muslim lands. They strongly disagree with what we are doing in their countries (with some good reason) and they attempt to sway the minds of impressionable youngsters to become jihadists and earn themselves an eternal place in paradise. They see it as the only effective way of striking back at their "perceived" oppressors. It's a very potent cocktail of politics and religion.

 

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Posted by orme2 - 3 years ago

The philosopher Luc Ferry was interviewed just now on Radio Classique and he maintains that one of the big problems is that in Western societies we have tried to replace religion with psychology/sociology, neither of which give young people the idea of there being a sense to life.

He said that trying to say that these people do what they do purely because of social injustice or political motives is denying the fact that they go off to die joyfully, expecting to be rewarded for their 'sacrifice'.  People don't generally commit suicide because they grew up in run-down areas or don't agree with their country meddling in the affairs of other countries.

 

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Posted by Mickrest - 3 years ago

The Middle East is very sectarian and there are some very long standing scores to be settled, particularly between Sunni and Shiite muslems.

In addition, for a century or more, there's been a schism between those in the Middle East who think that they can learn from the West and those that have an isolationist view. The recent foreign policy of Western nations has accentuated these differeces and has made the isolationists more radical and extreme.

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Posted by orme2 - 3 years ago

I get your point about the Middle East, Mickrest, although we can't really take responsibility for Bashar in Syria - perhaps those who want to avenge the Syrian rebels should go to Tehran and shout about it.  However, I would be more convinced that it was all about punishing the West for its involvement in the Middle East if these jihadis were treating everyone in the Middle East well which, of course, they're not.