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English grammar questions...

Posted by Suzanne C-192641 - Created: 6 years ago
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10 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 10)

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Posted by MrBun - 6 years ago

P.s. Having just ré-read my posting, I think it's a good job I am now retired! In my defense several error are due to my Iphone predicting!! It gets confused as I write in both French & in English. That's my excuse & I'm sticking to it! Remember, however, Suzanne, that teachers are not gods. They are people like you & me. However they havé a tremendous responsibility towards the young. The director of thé school is responsible for what happens there. Hé or she must take action once aware that there is a problem.I worked in a lycée once as assistante anglaise. When talking about sport the students all said" I practise football, I practise tennis....." they had NOT learnt "I play football, I play tennis..." However there is a football practice on Friday. in French they use pratiquer so their teacher had translated word for word! When I spoke, gently, to the teacher about this problem, she looked at me as if I were crazy! My words fell on stony ground. Another teacher told me that she must go to thé 'city hall' Town hall surely. We were after all in a little seaside town!! Nô cathedrals in sight!Again GOOD LUCK Suzanne. Pleasedon't let this go. It's not just for your daughter it's for lots of others too! Please let us know how you get on!

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Posted by MrBun - 6 years ago

Suzanne for the good of all the students but mire importantly as a parent you really should act. It's not easy to complain about a teacher in France, as others say there is thé fear of thé teacher being unkind to tour daughter. We are British, after all, we don't lie down like thé French parents do because we are afraid. The future of these youngsters is in question. I speak as a retired teacher, having worked in England & France. The French teachers have a very easy life compared with their British colleagues. They have very little idea on how to deliver lecons. I have found some of their behaviour unbelievable. They get away with it because the system protects them & most of all because thé parents are afraid of rétribution. I am a gréât believer in good education. It is vital for the future of mankind. Teachers are not gods who know everything. They are facilitators to learning. Teachers too, should always be learning, keeping up to date. Thé English language is ever changing. Nô-one, I am sure, wishes to see someone lose her job but as you say, Suzanne, this woman is a teacher. Would we be so forgiving if a doctor made a serious mistake? This is a serious matter. It should be dealt with seriously. I suggest that no teacher would be better than the teacher in question. The students would be better off reading good English literature. Those who have commented are all in agreement that the examples of "English" you have given are utter rubbish. Good look with any meetings you may have but stick to your ground. It's time to act!! Maybe this teacher could receive some help in improving her skills. She told your daughter that she has had her job for a long time-as the French say "et alors!"

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Posted by ouch that hurt !-230853 - 6 years ago

The teacher will be removed, My son had an incompetent teacher who was removed, ( but sadly just moved to another Lycée)

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Posted by ouch that hurt !-230853 - 6 years ago

write to the Inspecteur de l’Acadamie, contact the person who is rep de parents d’eleves of her class , they will contact the association FCPE or other, they can deal with this, (professeur incompetent)The prof principal should have fed the discontent back to the Proviseur, who should take this furtherOnce the FCPE (or chosen association) & Rectorat is informed, you can put pressure on by having the class demonstrate outside the Lycée, (having made sure the Nice Matin, TF1 etc, have been informed so that it gets into the press.)the Acadamy will be forced to act.
in the mean time,I would also preempt problem with teacher by asking for rdv with the Proviseur

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Posted by Suzanne C-192641 - 6 years ago

"But the other side of the coin is that when a teacher is incompetent, the students promply sense it, and are very keen on letting the teacher know....they never let go!!! so if it's tense between Suzanne's daughter and her teacher, it must be tense with the whole class too."

Absolutely right. The whole class made a formal complaint against this teacher at the December Conseil de Classe but the Prof Principal said she couldn't do anything about it as she couldn't say anything against a fellow teacher. The English teacher also said to my daughter the other day "You can complain and write all the letters you want but I have had this job for years and I'm not going to lose it just because of you". She has been dealing with this sort of sarcasm and snide remarks since September.

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Posted by F-189504 - 6 years ago

Hi Christine,

Thanks, you are very gracious.

You are right in that students do sense if a teacher is wrong, or just incompetent, but it is so important for the student to be heard, and supported when they are right.

An anecdote if I may.

Some years ago I was teaching undergraduates in Nice. In my first few lessons I always thanked the students for letting me anywhere near them.

Thanked the students!

Yes, and they were very surprised at this, but I insisted that while I felt pretty confident as a teacher and in my course, they had nevertheless trusted me with their learning, and so I said ‘thank you’.

I once read that there were no bad students, only bad teachers. While one sentence quotes can’t always answer complex problems, I feel there is a lot of truth in this.

Francis

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Posted by liloute - 6 years ago

Hi Francis

Bravo! you made a good point here...I hadn't thought of this occurence (future perfect + progressive form), which works perfectly....sorry, I wrote the mail really fast last night.(and I don't use it that often)

The fact is, this teacher has brought about such inanities I felt hurt in my profession.

Suzanne will probably find it hard to change the course of things, and that's a shame..

But the other side of the coin is that when a teacher is incompetent, the students promply sense it, and are very keen on letting the teacher know....they never let go!!! so if it's tense between Suzanne's daughter and her teacher, it must be tense with the whole class too. So she shouldn't lack confidence in herself.The teacher is wrong, not her. Then being in a "speciality" class, she should have another English teacher, who is hopefully much better in her job!

Thanks Francis and good luck Suzanne!

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Posted by F-189504 - 6 years ago

Past Future - Active Voice - He will have realised his shyness when he has felt it.

Hi Christine,

Thank you for explaining what the teacher was trying to get at here - the 'future perfect tense', and not any ‘future in the past’ idea. It had baffled me!

However if that is the case I think you will find the future perfect does have a continuous (or progressive) form. Example:

Future perfect simple:By the end of the day I will have written 1 000 words.

Future perfect continuous: By the end of the year I will have been living here for 20 years. (Continuous form is usually used with a time expression, here 20 years).

However, too deep a concentration on the rules of grammar can cause psychological blocks that are hard to shift. I only hope that this discussion serves to bring (back) a little confidence to Suzanne and her student daughter.

Sincerely,

Francis

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Posted by Suzanne C-192641 - 6 years ago

Thanks again for all the very helpful replies and advice! Just to give a little background - we came to France when my daughter was 10, we speak English at home and both our children are avid readers so I'm fairly confident neither of them will have a problem with the Bac. They both worked their way through a book on Grammar when they were in college, which was marked by their teacher at the time (English Grammar in Use by Graham Murphy, if I remember correctly). In fact, they have both had very good English teachers up until now. The class my daughter is in is Speciality English which means as well as the usual English classes they have extra lessons and they have to take an extra test at the Bac, which should earn more points towards passing the Bac.

What does bother me is the day to day problem of this teacher giving wrong information to the pupils. This is happening in every class, it is not just the odd time. Yesterday my daughter came home with work sheets with sentences such as "She asked him 100 pounds to buy a scarf". Sometimes they are only small errors but should a teacher at this level be making mistakes like this? Apparently her spoken English is not very good, either. My daughter has come home on more than one occasion with essays where she has used perfectly good English but the teacher has corrected it (wrongly) and taken marks off her! This has confused my daughter and affected her confidence in writing English. Also, others in the class have admitted that they have written essays in French and then used Google translate to put them into English and have received better marks than her for the same essay!

Sorry if I've waffled on a bit! I will be sure to use the "softly, softly" approach when meeting with this teacher - there is a fair amount of tension between her and my daughter and I want to diffuse the situation as much as I can.

PS - Christine - the examples I gave were not my own but were directly copied from the paperwork handed out by the teacher - sorry for any confusion.

PPS I would just like to point out that I would never normally criticise the language skills of another person (my French leaves a lot to be desired!) but she's a teacher, for Heaven's sake!

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Posted by thinklucky - 6 years ago

The BAC is not that frightening - please take a look at the back papers which are available - if you normally converse at home with your child in English as I assume a native speaker they will sail through - as I said my son who is Dyslexic (and has been in the French system since the age of 4) passed it with ease and its a written paper, Dyslexics HATE writing - he neither used the secretarial help he was offered (as he knew he'd make less mistakes) nor did he use the extra time he was allow.

If I was you I'd concentrate on your own efforts at home without worrying about jumping through too many grammatical hoops in life - As a native speaker If it sounds right it generally is - unless you have a bad dose of Eastern Estuary in your education! Avoid over-stressing yourself or your child...clearly you can worry behind their back - every parent does goes through the BAC. Sincerely if you are going to spend money on extra tution I'd use it in another subject than English, you can iron out most problems in that yourself at home.

Good luck.