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Is there a word in English for the fish Chapon?

Posted by Paul Carmel-190537 - Created: 13 years ago
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10 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 10)

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Posted by mike-179830 - 13 years ago

No.6 - those would be the American English names you're using, I believe. In British English a Sea Bream (for example) is a pagre in French.

Part of the problem of having many versions of English. For example, in both British English and American English the word "flounder" exists to describe a flatfish, but in one it refers to a sinstral flatfish and in the other to a dextral one. A crayfish in British English is a small freshwater crustacean (écréveisse), but in South African English it is a salt-water crustacean resembling a spiny lobster (or langouste). And so on...

For me, I'll continue to trust Alan Davidson's magisterial Mediterranean Seafood, a book (remember those..?) described by the late Auberon Waugh as "The best book ever written on this, or possibly any other, subject."

(Now that's a review many authors would give their eye teeth for).

Anyway, one man's fish is another man's poisson. Right?

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Mike

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Posted by No.6 - 13 years ago

I've found it!  The 'ultimate' fish-name translation engine?  Gives you hundreds of fish name equivalents in no less than 7 languages including Latin.

According to this source, Pageot commun = "Pandora", as Mike says. But:

Pageot = seabream / porgyPageot blanc = axillary seabreamPageot rose = blackspot seabreamPageot acarné = spanish bream 

Oh! and rascasse rouge = bigscale scorpionfish and there is also a rascasse pustuleuse, a rascasse brune and a rascasse du nord, apparently.

Let me know if you want to know the URL... :-)

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Posted by mike-179830 - 13 years ago

Chapon and capoun are the Midi terms for the fish more commonly known in dictionary French as the rascasse rouge, which is (as LimL said) known as a scorpion fish in English, or British English, anyway... It's scorpaena scrofa in Latin - which will help distinguish it from a bunch of other fish that are known as "scorpion fish" in various versions of English, and not to be confused with scorpaena porcus, the rascasse noire, although confusing them in the kitchen won't be too tragic as they taste similar and can be used for similar purposes. The rascasse noire is about half the size, however, which means its cheeks are less succulent.

(There's also the rascasse de fond, before someone dives in with that... "Blue mouth" in English, because it has a blue, er, mouth.)

Part 2: The pageot rouge is a "pandora" in English, while the pageot blanc is a "bronze bream" or "spanish bream"

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Mike

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Posted by Paul Carmel-190537 - 13 years ago

Ok round two!! Pageot ..............in English please........It is not a car!

Cheers

PC

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Posted by legend_in_my_lunchtime-182603 - 13 years ago

My word, it's amazing how these little scraps I've stored over the years find their use for the AI readership. OK - so it's lunchtime and I've eaten and we're talking about food - this thread can go on and on :)

I guess we all settled on the fact that chapon is "rascasse" in local (Niçois) French but of course that is not going to work when you need to explain it in English.  When you cook with Patricia, she often gets you to go out and buy your ingredients locally.  The local Provençal market traders take devilish joy in teasing Patricia's mostly mono-lingual American students by pretending not to understand the meticulous lists that Patricia prepares for them, and offering them castrated roosters instead of the delicate little red scorpion fish that the recipe requires.  Provençal fishmongers call it "capoun" and you will get the best and the freshest if you ask for it like that.

I really don't know what it is officially called in English other than "scorpion fish" but in Latin it is "scorpaena notata"

You can meet one right here.

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Posted by reinrev5 - 13 years ago

PC,

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christian.coudre/1355.html

Chapon = Rascasse but I have not found it listed in any dictionary, even so called gastronomic ones. The above site is the only place that I have seen that they are the same thing, top line beside "autre nom" . Today I've learnt a new word !

Reinrev

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Posted by Paul Carmel-190537 - 13 years ago

The plot thickens!! I have bought Chapon in restaurants and in the supermarket, it's about a foot long, red and very ugly! but it tastes great, especially the cheeks.

I think it may be indigenous to here, but it's definitely not a Corsican translation of a French name.

Bon appetit!

PC

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Posted by reinrev5 - 13 years ago

PC,

I'm virtually bilingual and never having heard of a "Chapon" as a fish I had a quick look, typing "Chapon de Mer" in Google. It seems that a "Chapon de Mer" is a recipe made with the "Rascasse" fish rather than the fish itself, see site/recipe below. The "Rascasse" as a fish brings us back to Legend's Scorpion Fish (or Red-Fish ?)

http://nicolas.boullet.free.fr/recettes/chapondemer.html

Reinrev

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Posted by Paul Carmel-190537 - 13 years ago

Legend to the rescue!

We are in Corsica (Calvi), so geographically south of France!  I need to know because we are translating a menu for a friend. 

Cheers, PC

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Posted by legend_in_my_lunchtime-182603 - 13 years ago

When I was trying to acquire the Mediterranean culinary ecellence pf Patricia Wells, I remember her saying that a chapon de mer is a scorpion fish. 

Why do you need to translate it?  Are you doing Mediterranean cooking elsewhere than in the south of France?