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Posted by fidav - Created: 13 years ago
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6 replies (Showing replies: 1 to 6)

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Posted by reinrev5 - 13 years ago


Unless you are very, very, very rich you will not be able to ask for an MC passport.

At the birth of the child it is generally the father who goes to the "Etat Civil" of Town Hall with the papers provided by the hospital AND the "Livret de Famille" to register the child. If you were not married in Monaco or France and don't have a "Livret de Famille" you will have to ask them what papers they require. Whatever, the child born in Monaco should be registered at the Town Hall in Monaco. I am quite sure that they are used to all sorts of rare and exotic cases so don't worry unduly about this. The father should go with a friend who will act as witness, otherwise an obliging staff member will fairly easily be found for this.

As for a travel document for the child, unless you are stateless, and I doubt even then, Monaco can't/won't help.

Mrs Holmes will be far more helpfull I am sure in this regard. The child in our case took the nationality of the father but as the mother is French and the French seem to want to rake in as many people from wherever as their nationals they were also French. If this is your case (either parent being French), if you are still in Monaco when the child turns 16 the child will have to change their Carte de Sejour from whatever-national to French national.... for 1 ½ years. As of 17½ years old they can repudiate their French nationality and return to their whatever-national.

Sorry but I can't help with the travel document for the child. All I can say is that almost all states (I don't know about Monaco) have signed a treaty so as to make it virtually impossible for anyone to be born stateless.  The only problem with this is that some countries label you with a nationality that you can never get rid of if you ever return there, even just passing through and this could cause problems in some cases. England I've heard is doing the opposite of France, trying to get rid of people who they think don't really belong whether the concerned think they are/want to be British or not.

My only recommendation is seek good advice, this is a minefield !

Send me your e-mail address and I'll send on the rest of the Civil Law copies that I have. I hope that they are still current!

Regards - Reinrev

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Posted by fidav - 13 years ago

Hi Reinrev5

Thanks for the info. I actually live in Monaco, do you know what applies there? I hear I can register the child but it won't get nationality and therefore travel documents - passport etc. My concern is mostly being able to get the child a passport to travel on asap - be in British, French, EU or Monaco (do they have passports?).

Eventually we are immigrating permanently to Australia and the child will become an Aus citizen with an Aus passport. I do not have any other nationalities, just permanent residence in Australia. I have lost my Zimbabwean citizenship and residence - which is where I was born.

Been trying to phone Mrs Holmes, but no luck yet.


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Posted by reinrev5 - 13 years ago

Hello Fidav,

A very good idea to ring Mrs Holmes.   You don't say so but I suppose that you are living in France, nor do you say what other nationalities you have.       Monaco (the Town Hall) registers the births of children born of parents living in Monaco. I should think (but I do not know) that a child born in Monaco of parents living in France would be declared to the French Consulate in Monaco. Below a couple of paragraphs from the Nationality Section of the French Civil Law, if you want to read more, send me an address to which I can attach a Word document. I don't want to clog up the whole Angloinfo site !

3 ACQUISITION DE LA NATIONALITE FRANÇAISE A RAISON DE LA NAISSANCE ET DE LA RESIDENCE EN FRANCE<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Art. 21-7 (L. no 98-170 du 16 mars 1998)Tout enfant né en France de parents étrangers acquiert la nationalité française à sa majorité si, à cette date, il a en France sa résidence et s’il a eu sa résidence habituelle en France pendant une période continue ou discontinue d’au moins cinq ans, depuis l'age de onze ans.

Art. 21-8 (L. no 98-1 70 du 16 mars 1998)L’intéresse à la faculté de déclarer, dans les conditions prévues aux articles 26 et suivants et sous réserve qu’il prouve qu’il a la nationalité d’un état étranger, qu’il décline la qualité de Français dans les six mois qui précédent sa majorité ou dans les douze mois qui Ia suivent.

Dans ce dernier cas, il est réputé n’avoir jamais été français. — Entrée en vigueur le 1er sept. 1998.




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Posted by fidav - 13 years ago

Thanks, I will give Mrs Holmes a ring!

I have lived in the UK for 3 consecutive years, I am just not sure how to prove it?! Any ideas?


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Posted by legend_in_my_lunchtime-182603 - 13 years ago

The chapter and verse for this is to had from a telephone consultation with Mrs. Holmes at the British Embassy in Paris (direct line 01 4451 3114).  She will then send you the correct paperwork for registration and for passport application.

By the way, you seem to have covered all of the important bases:  You are married to the father of the child, you are British (nationality by descent counts), and you have lived 3 consecutive years in the UK at some time.  Normally that is enough but do check with Mrs. Holmes to be sure because in some situations it is necessary to return to the UK to re-establish citizenship by actual birth there rather than by descent.

One other thing: you could ask her is what nationality rights your child would have.  My understanding is that when nationality is obtained twice by descent, then it cannot be transmitted to children of the next generation.  Might be worth knowing if that is right just for future reference for your child.

Wishing you a happy pregnancy and safe delivery,

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Posted by fidav - 13 years ago

Sorry, hit the enter button by mistake before I had written anything!

Can anyone advise us on the nationality problems. I am British, not born there but due to my father being born there. If I have a baby in Monaco what nationality will it be?

I have heard Monaco does not register births here and that I will have to register in it in France. Does the baby then get a French/EU passport? Surely there is some EU agreement that babies born to EU passport holders in a different EU country means the baby still gets an EU passport?

I will register the birth with the British Embassy in Paris, but since I am not British by birth there may be issues as to the baby getting a British passport. I have lived in the UK for 3 years previously and have been told that that should be enough to get the baby a passport even if it is not born in the UK.

My husband is not British, but Irish, also not by birth but through his mother. Neither of us has retained the nationality of our birth country, because they won't let us have dual citizenship and we didn't want to lose our British status. So although we have  birth certificates there we are not considered citizens - I even have to get a visa to visit my parents!!

I am just concerned my baby will be stateless!! Any advice would be great. (Except to have the baby in the UK as that is not an option!)